clovenhooves The Personal Is Political General Changing minds

Changing minds

Changing minds

 
Jun 18 2025, 11:34 AM
#1
Curious to hear if anyone has had luck changing minds when it comes to the subjects covered under radical feminism. How do you get through to women (and maybe men, if such a thing is even possible) and make them understand just how harmful the patriarchy is for them?

I find most people function according to extremely emotional and superficial ideas and, while we're all subject to emotional biases to some degree, it just feels like most people don't even make the flimsiest attempt to examine their own beliefs, and blindly rely on authority or celebrities to tell them what to think. "You can't argue someone out of a position they didn't argue themselves into". So whenever I try to argue with people, usually by asking questions and poking holes in their own reasoning, they turn into angry pissbabies. And these are for some very basic feminist ideas, let alone anything more controversial.

I wonder if radical feminism can ever even make gains among these people. Because women automatically have less authority, I don't see them ever getting enough of it to truly make a feminist statement, beyond the most superficial, toothless liberal feminist pleas (i.e. you don't have to force us into objectification, we're actually eager to do it of our own accord!).
Edited Jun 19 2025, 12:20 PM by YesYourNigel.

I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing
YesYourNigel
Jun 18 2025, 11:34 AM #1

Curious to hear if anyone has had luck changing minds when it comes to the subjects covered under radical feminism. How do you get through to women (and maybe men, if such a thing is even possible) and make them understand just how harmful the patriarchy is for them?

I find most people function according to extremely emotional and superficial ideas and, while we're all subject to emotional biases to some degree, it just feels like most people don't even make the flimsiest attempt to examine their own beliefs, and blindly rely on authority or celebrities to tell them what to think. "You can't argue someone out of a position they didn't argue themselves into". So whenever I try to argue with people, usually by asking questions and poking holes in their own reasoning, they turn into angry pissbabies. And these are for some very basic feminist ideas, let alone anything more controversial.

I wonder if radical feminism can ever even make gains among these people. Because women automatically have less authority, I don't see them ever getting enough of it to truly make a feminist statement, beyond the most superficial, toothless liberal feminist pleas (i.e. you don't have to force us into objectification, we're actually eager to do it of our own accord!).


I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing

MenacinglyLavender
Fesbian LeministđŸȘ»
32
Jun 19 2025, 4:36 PM
#2
I haven’t convinced many (mainly because I’m still too scared to be vocal about many radfem positions given my social circles) but the biggest thing for me in one-on-one situations is meeting people where they are.

As one example, referring to TIMs as such right outta the gate will make many just shut their ears off and ignore everything else you have to say, no matter of what value. Acquiescing and referring to them as “trans women”, and acknowledging that they do experience certain hardships, will make it far more likely people listen when explaining how that still doesn’t change that they aren’t actual women, and that many trans activism demands further contribute to women’s sex-based oppression.  Not with everyone of course (maybe not even most), but definitely more than you would going in guns-a-blazing.

Additionally, unless you’re talking about something that directly effects you (me explaining how aspects of trans rights activism has hurt me directly as a lesbian has changed some minds), do your best to stick to the facts and keep your own emotions out of it. Like a “hey, I know ‘sex positivity’ has helped you personally enjoy sex more after your conservative upbringing but that doesn’t mean it’s been a net positive. Like, did you know that the increase in porn access and consumption has led to
.etc etc etc”

Is it fair we have to calm and rational, and give a little? Nope. And does that mean we should act as such when pushing for policy changes? Absolutely not. But when trying to convince people individually, it will increase the impact of your words if certain concessions mean they’re willing to listen to what you have to say.
Edited Jun 19 2025, 6:31 PM by MenacinglyLavender.
MenacinglyLavender
Fesbian LeministđŸȘ»
Jun 19 2025, 4:36 PM #2

I haven’t convinced many (mainly because I’m still too scared to be vocal about many radfem positions given my social circles) but the biggest thing for me in one-on-one situations is meeting people where they are.

As one example, referring to TIMs as such right outta the gate will make many just shut their ears off and ignore everything else you have to say, no matter of what value. Acquiescing and referring to them as “trans women”, and acknowledging that they do experience certain hardships, will make it far more likely people listen when explaining how that still doesn’t change that they aren’t actual women, and that many trans activism demands further contribute to women’s sex-based oppression.  Not with everyone of course (maybe not even most), but definitely more than you would going in guns-a-blazing.

Additionally, unless you’re talking about something that directly effects you (me explaining how aspects of trans rights activism has hurt me directly as a lesbian has changed some minds), do your best to stick to the facts and keep your own emotions out of it. Like a “hey, I know ‘sex positivity’ has helped you personally enjoy sex more after your conservative upbringing but that doesn’t mean it’s been a net positive. Like, did you know that the increase in porn access and consumption has led to
.etc etc etc”

Is it fair we have to calm and rational, and give a little? Nope. And does that mean we should act as such when pushing for policy changes? Absolutely not. But when trying to convince people individually, it will increase the impact of your words if certain concessions mean they’re willing to listen to what you have to say.

Jun 20 2025, 8:06 AM
#3
We humans like to think we're logical, but we're emotional beings. A lot of our beliefs come from emotion and no amount of facts-and-logic can move that if there's not an emotion to drive change and make it stick. And it has to be an emotion we can relate to, not one that the other person wishes we would have.

This can be very hard to remember when I want to throw facts and logic at someone to try to persuade them, and slowly I'm learning that it just won't work unless it connects on some emotional level. If anything, without the emotion, we dig deeper into our own beliefs instead of really processing what the other person is saying and considering the facts they're presenting. We don't like to look stupid or uninformed in front of others. And we have to want to understand what they're saying, to some extent.
Elsacat
Jun 20 2025, 8:06 AM #3

We humans like to think we're logical, but we're emotional beings. A lot of our beliefs come from emotion and no amount of facts-and-logic can move that if there's not an emotion to drive change and make it stick. And it has to be an emotion we can relate to, not one that the other person wishes we would have.

This can be very hard to remember when I want to throw facts and logic at someone to try to persuade them, and slowly I'm learning that it just won't work unless it connects on some emotional level. If anything, without the emotion, we dig deeper into our own beliefs instead of really processing what the other person is saying and considering the facts they're presenting. We don't like to look stupid or uninformed in front of others. And we have to want to understand what they're saying, to some extent.

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